Comments for "Scientology and the problem of religious tolerance." Talk at VideoSift.com

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:53:42 -0800

You get a quality for this post when I recharge-
Yes, people are addicted to defective semantics, most have lumped the spiritual, especially those who strive to place convenient labels and their limited perceptive apparatus, into a tidy corner of their liquid head-sack, so they can stop thinking.

Scientology, is a contrived system that works to do a number of things for a number of operating systems....it is neither "good or bad", because these words are the simplest of subjective labels, rooted in the ingrained dualistic approach to this incarnation, that short-circuit healthy process -

Anyone, can create a system that functions. One simply need the ingredients available to anyone that breathes air.....brain, motor skills, and storage media.....braaaaaiiinnns! Plenty of those ripe for the pickin's on planet E.

Compare the current hype surrounding Scientology to a diversion like the NFL-something of little importance, in light of the real issues on the planet, which need the collective full-attention, but that saps time, energy, resources, and continues to perpetrate the robotic response to induced stimuli.....

and Hubbard chuckles from the great beyond, cause he could give a fuck-
Mormons did the same thing
Catholics did the same thing

the outcomes and motivations have similarities and degrees, and durations, but they all achieve the same end-a tool to work within another contrived system, that being the world system, that interprets value based on a monetary equivalent....

kill that, and suddenly the spiritual nature of man is no longer a whore.....

By Irishman

Irishman (http://history.videosift.com/member/Irishman) — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:59:32 -0800

You've got to recognise the 'world system' that interprets money and wealth as things of value as a separate entity. Yes, we have created it, but now we are entirely reliant upon it and we slave everyday toward its maintenance.

When people turn to find meaning and spirituality they turn to other entities within this system, namely catholicism, mormonism, scientology and all the rest. They never ever leave the system and therefore never touch upon the things that really make us human.

If you really want to attack scientology, if you really want to turn people against it, you must show them that there are no answers, meaning or spirituality present in any of the major world religions. With the possible exception of Buddhism they are all hierarchical monetary based systems.

Somebody called Jesus once pointed out the exact same thing about the Roman church.

By Fedquip

Fedquip (http://fedquip.videosift.com) — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:53:19 -0800

I roll my eyes at organized religion, I appreciate the fact that I have the choice to tolerate it.

The Internet has always been a battle ground of philosophies, it hasn't been until recently that the the debates of the average internet population has boiled over to the mainstream. I don't think Dawkins would be as big as he is without the Internet. Atheism was never a topic that made the mainstream, but last year it was all over.

Scientology is a big church that has done lots of bad things and this recent online movement is interesting to watch and we all love revolutions. It's easy to forget that all religions and non-religion groups have their fundamentalists and corrupt officials.

What secular people have to do is keep an eye on these Fundy officials and ensure Fundy ideas (ex: sharia law, creationism) don't change the equal systems we inherited.

By Farhad2000

Farhad2000 (http://farhad.videosift.com) — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:16:44 -0800

Human beings will always gravitate towards religion against their better judgment for we are most of the time ruled by simple animalistic impulse of fear and the need to belong to something higher. Especially in our modern commercial disposable world.

By joedirt

joedirt (http://history.videosift.com/member/joedirt) — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:49:49 -0800

"In many ways, the movement against scientology is the same type of beast as a religious cult, with the vegetoid masses signing up to feel part of something noble and larger than life."

"I hold the same disgust toward scientology as I do toward judeo-christianity, which has delivered us the most violent century in ALL of human history, the 20th."

"So who do we blame for all of this? Well let's start with all of those organisations preaching religious tolerance. ... Think about if *your* religion would survive"

Yes, everyone is to blame. Everyone should die and join a suicide pact. Ok, I get it.

How about a pragmatic take on the recent Scientology events? Scientology much like MPAA and RIAA abuses copyright laws to bully people on the internet and sue and very litigious over clearly fair use. Therefore people are pissed off, especially culture warriors and the internets meme generators.

How about the fact that Scientology is a financial scam which pretends to be a "faith" in order for tax-free status and the exemption of "donations" for course fees. Forget the financial milking of their followers, it serves them right, but what about the tax-scam?

Who was the only group to infiltrate the US gov't including the IRS and DOJ? Was it Russia? Was it islamo-fascists? Nope, it was Scienologists and 11 of them (including Hubbard's wife) were convicted and sent to federal prison.

Scientology as acquired a massive portfolio of real estate all because of the tax shelters and loophole provided to them as a "Church" and "religion". How did they achieve such status? Seriously ask yourself that and do some research. Could YOU write a sci-fi slash religious text and get a group of 20 of your followers tax-free church status?

Also, why is it that a Jewish family that send their kids to a private school or religious camp cannot deduct those expenses, whereas scientologist can claim ALL of their course work, in the $100,000 in some cases, as donations? Why are these super rich Hollywood types allowed to pump all of this money tax free into this corporation.

If you still fail to see Scientology as a corporation, then ask yourself this, (aside from CBN) how many other religions have infomercials, amazon book stores, and also re-release all of their books and CDs every four years like it is a Star Wars franchise?

Does the Catholic church sell newly remastered and digitally restored DVDs? Seriously?

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:54:06 -0800

Give it up for Scientology-They have accomplished much of what the World's elite have done with entire nations' political and monetary systems, in a very short period of time, using the same models and tactics-The resulting human collateral damage is not a concern. Just like the bean-counters at an automobile company, who choose not to recall a vehicle for it's design hazards to consumers, they have decided to take the lawsuits on, over the more expensive bill, of having to retrofit or redesign all the cars sold......simple math-

You think more sinister cabals have not done far worse??? You are an idiot.

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:03:12 -0800

*quality
*sticky

By siftbot

siftbot (http://history.videosift.com/member/siftbot) — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:03:13 -0800

Awarding Irishman with one star point for this contribution to Sift Talk - declared quality by choggie.

Stickying this post at the top of Sift Talk - sticky requested by choggie.

By silvercord

silvercord (http://silvercord.videosift.com) — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:01:11 -0800

I hold the same disgust toward scientology as I do toward judeo-christianity, which has delivered us the most violent century in ALL of human history, the 20th.

I keep reading and hearing this wherever I go but it's just simply not true. There is a comprehensive work on the subject here:

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/

Rummel has produced a book entitled "Power Kills," and another- "Death by Government" - which bolster the fact that religion cannot hold a candle to government when it comes to murder.

Most of the stats and links to stats are here:

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:38:17 -0800

With most comments along a similar line of inductive reasoning, they come from that place in the mind that is unable to, or becomes exhausted by, the task of working through problematic issues with limited capacity....

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:47:44 -0800

*unsticky

By siftbot

siftbot (http://history.videosift.com/member/siftbot) — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:47:45 -0800

Unstickying this post from the top of Sift Talk - unsticky requested by choggie.

By Irishman

Irishman (http://history.videosift.com/member/Irishman) — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:02:04 -0800

In response to the link posted above http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/ , I profoundly disagree to their premise that "power kills".

The Acton quote "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely" needs no modification, it is a perfect truth verfied by experience.

To jump to 'power kills' from this shows a completely impoverished knowledge of history and the human condition.

The power needed to destroy ourselves is the same power that will save us if you hold any faith in humanity whatsoever. 'Power kills' comes from a belief that humans are inherently 'bad'.

Governments teach their own demographic that they are 'different' from other peoples in order to control them. Religion and culture are part of this engine. As religious fear has lost its power you see the shift toward drugs and more recently toward terrorism. This is *explicitly* taught in Harvard and you can download the teaching notes online.

Governments will use whatever tools they need to get people behind a war, you can see the difference between how the war was sold to the public in the UK by Blair compared to how it was sold in USA by dictator Bush. 'Islamo Facism' didn't exist in the American vocabulary until 9/11.

By silvercord

silvercord (http://silvercord.videosift.com) — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:47:09 -0800

Not only did you not address the assertion, but you argue against the writer of books you have never read saying he has a "completely impoverished knowledge of history."

"Power kills" comes from the statistics that lead to the inescapable conclusion that power kills.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:06:27 -0800

*quality

By siftbot

siftbot (http://history.videosift.com/member/siftbot) — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:06:28 -0800

Irishman has already been awarded a star point for this post - ignoring quality request by choggie.

By choggie

choggie (http://history.videosift.com/member/choggie) — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:06:56 -0800

oops