This started as one of my comments on one of the (more embarassing) scientology protest videos, delivered me a couple of comments on my profile, and got me to thinking what my real views on this subject are.
It is my intent to have a dialogue with all of you honestly, openly and with no personal malice or prejudice. Let's get this whole subject out in the open with everyone's thoughts and feelings so that we can look at it in the light of day and see if we can all evolve our understanding of the problems, the benefits, and each other.
>>>>
I am not wishing ill on those that protest an evil organisation, I am Ripping The Shit out of the mindless vegetoid slugs in this particular video who are devaluing and embarassing one of the most important social/internet phenomena of the 21st Century, which is a movement against a cult disguised as a religion.
I hold the same disgust toward scientology as I do toward judeo-christianity, which has delivered us the most violent century in ALL of human history, the 20th.
Whilst attacking the cult is commendable and to be wholeheartedly encouraged, the underlying social issues and problems created by consumerism and materialism that lead vast numbers of people to seek some kind of meaning in all manner of religions, cults and fads are being completely missed by everyone involved.
In many ways, the movement against scientology is the same type of beast as a religious cult, with the vegetoid masses signing up to feel part of something noble and larger than life.
So who do we blame for all of this? Well let's start with all of those organisations preaching religious tolerance. Religious tolerance has ALWAYS created a smokescreen for hideousness. It's about time that was said by the way.
What do we do about it? Remove the smokescreen of religious tolerance and all of the nastiness born from organised religion will suddenly spring into the light of day. Think about if *your* religion would survive such a removal of the Smokescreen of Religious Tolerance.
What about real spirtuality and the belief that under the cloak we are in fact divine and spirtual beings? People will always seek out this truth for themselves, as they have done for more than ten thousand years *without* the presence of corrupting religions and labels.
I'm not preaching existentialism. Since the industrial era rationalism and science have tried to remove the magic and the sheer weirdness of reality, yet all along every single one of us KNOWS from our own experiences that life isn't rational and reducible, that there is an ever present 'other' and irrationality to reality. In fact this is the brick wall that science has been banging its head against now for 50 years, the latest attempt at rationalism being to remove Time itself from the equations.
Let's move this to sift talk and get everyone's thoughts. If people want to attack scientology then they better be ready to face the really hard questions and the bigger picture.
In reply to this comment by QuadraPixel:
Then why do you wish such ill on those that protest an evil organization, that you have no association with?
In reply to this comment by Irishman:
As I said before Kommie, I'm an eschatologist, not a scientologist.
In reply to this comment by QuadraPixel:
Wow, now that's a little harsh, but not when it comes from a SCIENTOLOGIST.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Busted-for-Interbulating-a-scientology-party
http://www.videosift.com/video/Cult-of-Scientology-takes-over-Clearwater-Police-Dept
In reply to this comment by Irishman:
Personally I'd like to see every single person in that video joining a suicide death cult as soon as possible.
It is my intent to have a dialogue with all of you honestly, openly and with no personal malice or prejudice. Let's get this whole subject out in the open with everyone's thoughts and feelings so that we can look at it in the light of day and see if we can all evolve our understanding of the problems, the benefits, and each other.
>>>>
I am not wishing ill on those that protest an evil organisation, I am Ripping The Shit out of the mindless vegetoid slugs in this particular video who are devaluing and embarassing one of the most important social/internet phenomena of the 21st Century, which is a movement against a cult disguised as a religion.
I hold the same disgust toward scientology as I do toward judeo-christianity, which has delivered us the most violent century in ALL of human history, the 20th.
Whilst attacking the cult is commendable and to be wholeheartedly encouraged, the underlying social issues and problems created by consumerism and materialism that lead vast numbers of people to seek some kind of meaning in all manner of religions, cults and fads are being completely missed by everyone involved.
In many ways, the movement against scientology is the same type of beast as a religious cult, with the vegetoid masses signing up to feel part of something noble and larger than life.
So who do we blame for all of this? Well let's start with all of those organisations preaching religious tolerance. Religious tolerance has ALWAYS created a smokescreen for hideousness. It's about time that was said by the way.
What do we do about it? Remove the smokescreen of religious tolerance and all of the nastiness born from organised religion will suddenly spring into the light of day. Think about if *your* religion would survive such a removal of the Smokescreen of Religious Tolerance.
What about real spirtuality and the belief that under the cloak we are in fact divine and spirtual beings? People will always seek out this truth for themselves, as they have done for more than ten thousand years *without* the presence of corrupting religions and labels.
I'm not preaching existentialism. Since the industrial era rationalism and science have tried to remove the magic and the sheer weirdness of reality, yet all along every single one of us KNOWS from our own experiences that life isn't rational and reducible, that there is an ever present 'other' and irrationality to reality. In fact this is the brick wall that science has been banging its head against now for 50 years, the latest attempt at rationalism being to remove Time itself from the equations.
Let's move this to sift talk and get everyone's thoughts. If people want to attack scientology then they better be ready to face the really hard questions and the bigger picture.
In reply to this comment by QuadraPixel:
Then why do you wish such ill on those that protest an evil organization, that you have no association with?
In reply to this comment by Irishman:
As I said before Kommie, I'm an eschatologist, not a scientologist.
In reply to this comment by QuadraPixel:
Wow, now that's a little harsh, but not when it comes from a SCIENTOLOGIST.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Busted-for-Interbulating-a-scientology-party
http://www.videosift.com/video/Cult-of-Scientology-takes-over-Clearwater-Police-Dept
In reply to this comment by Irishman:
Personally I'd like to see every single person in that video joining a suicide death cult as soon as possible.
Wife Will Never Touch a Gun Again
Yes, people are addicted to defective semantics, most have lumped the spiritual, especially those who strive to place convenient labels and their limited perceptive apparatus, into a tidy corner of their liquid head-sack, so they can stop thinking.
Scientology, is a contrived system that works to do a number of things for a number of operating systems....it is neither "good or bad", because these words are the simplest of subjective labels, rooted in the ingrained dualistic approach to this incarnation, that short-circuit healthy process -
Anyone, can create a system that functions. One simply need the ingredients available to anyone that breathes air.....brain, motor skills, and storage media.....braaaaaiiinnns! Plenty of those ripe for the pickin's on planet E.
Compare the current hype surrounding Scientology to a diversion like the NFL-something of little importance, in light of the real issues on the planet, which need the collective full-attention, but that saps time, energy, resources, and continues to perpetrate the robotic response to induced stimuli.....
and Hubbard chuckles from the great beyond, cause he could give a fuck-
Mormons did the same thing
Catholics did the same thing
the outcomes and motivations have similarities and degrees, and durations, but they all achieve the same end-a tool to work within another contrived system, that being the world system, that interprets value based on a monetary equivalent....
kill that, and suddenly the spiritual nature of man is no longer a whore.....
When people turn to find meaning and spirituality they turn to other entities within this system, namely catholicism, mormonism, scientology and all the rest. They never ever leave the system and therefore never touch upon the things that really make us human.
If you really want to attack scientology, if you really want to turn people against it, you must show them that there are no answers, meaning or spirituality present in any of the major world religions. With the possible exception of Buddhism they are all hierarchical monetary based systems.
Somebody called Jesus once pointed out the exact same thing about the Roman church.
The Internet has always been a battle ground of philosophies, it hasn't been until recently that the the debates of the average internet population has boiled over to the mainstream. I don't think Dawkins would be as big as he is without the Internet. Atheism was never a topic that made the mainstream, but last year it was all over.
Scientology is a big church that has done lots of bad things and this recent online movement is interesting to watch and we all love revolutions. It's easy to forget that all religions and non-religion groups have their fundamentalists and corrupt officials.
What secular people have to do is keep an eye on these Fundy officials and ensure Fundy ideas (ex: sharia law, creationism) don't change the equal systems we inherited.
How about a pragmatic take on the recent Scientology events? Scientology much like MPAA and RIAA abuses copyright laws to bully people on the internet and sue and very litigious over clearly fair use. Therefore people are pissed off, especially culture warriors and the internets meme generators.
How about the fact that Scientology is a financial scam which pretends to be a "faith" in order for tax-free status and the exemption of "donations" for course fees. Forget the financial milking of their followers, it serves them right, but what about the tax-scam?
Who was the only group to infiltrate the US gov't including the IRS and DOJ? Was it Russia? Was it islamo-fascists? Nope, it was Scienologists and 11 of them (including Hubbard's wife) were convicted and sent to federal prison.
Scientology as acquired a massive portfolio of real estate all because of the tax shelters and loophole provided to them as a "Church" and "religion". How did they achieve such status? Seriously ask yourself that and do some research. Could YOU write a sci-fi slash religious text and get a group of 20 of your followers tax-free church status?
Also, why is it that a Jewish family that send their kids to a private school or religious camp cannot deduct those expenses, whereas scientologist can claim ALL of their course work, in the $100,000 in some cases, as donations? Why are these super rich Hollywood types allowed to pump all of this money tax free into this corporation.
If you still fail to see Scientology as a corporation, then ask yourself this, (aside from CBN) how many other religions have infomercials, amazon book stores, and also re-release all of their books and CDs every four years like it is a Star Wars franchise?
Does the Catholic church sell newly remastered and digitally restored DVDs? Seriously?
You think more sinister cabals have not done far worse??? You are an idiot.
*sticky
Stickying this post at the top of Sift Talk - sticky requested by choggie.
I keep reading and hearing this wherever I go but it's just simply not true. There is a comprehensive work on the subject here:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/
Rummel has produced a book entitled "Power Kills," and another- "Death by Government" - which bolster the fact that religion cannot hold a candle to government when it comes to murder.
Most of the stats and links to stats are here:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
The Acton quote "Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely" needs no modification, it is a perfect truth verfied by experience.
To jump to 'power kills' from this shows a completely impoverished knowledge of history and the human condition.
The power needed to destroy ourselves is the same power that will save us if you hold any faith in humanity whatsoever. 'Power kills' comes from a belief that humans are inherently 'bad'.
Governments teach their own demographic that they are 'different' from other peoples in order to control them. Religion and culture are part of this engine. As religious fear has lost its power you see the shift toward drugs and more recently toward terrorism. This is *explicitly* taught in Harvard and you can download the teaching notes online.
Governments will use whatever tools they need to get people behind a war, you can see the difference between how the war was sold to the public in the UK by Blair compared to how it was sold in USA by dictator Bush. 'Islamo Facism' didn't exist in the American vocabulary until 9/11.
"Power kills" comes from the statistics that lead to the inescapable conclusion that power kills.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."